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AGGRO, Burn

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AGGRO, Burn

Post by feral hydra on Tue May 04, 2010 5:22 pm

Aggro Burn
creaturesx27
1 iron-barb hellion
4 kavu aggressor
1 forune theif
2 thunder-thrash elder
1 coalhauler swine
1 akki colfinger
2 goblin fire feind
1 greater forgeling
1 viashino spearhunter
1 valleymaker
1 hellspark elemental
1 goblin grenadiers
2 goblin digging team
1 lunk errant
1 sandstone warrior
1 goblin skycutter
1 skirk shaman
1 hell bent raider
2 barbed shocker
spellsx17
1 soulfire
2 fiery fall
1 mana geiser
2 jaws of stone
4 stun
1 incite hysteria
1 ember gale
1 kearveks tarch
1 titans evenge
2 spitting earth
1 shard volley
landsx22
21 mountain
1 akoum refuge


what do you think of this deck...its good to me Very Happy
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Re: AGGRO, Burn

Post by The Cadet on Tue May 18, 2010 1:28 pm

feral hydra wrote:Aggro Burn
creaturesx27
1 iron-barb hellion
Trash.
4 kavu aggressor
Trash.

1 forune theif
Almost trash, definitely trash in an "Aggro Burn" deck.
2 thunder-thrash elder
MAJOR trash, seeing as so far your curve is mostly more expensive than him.
1 coalhauler swine
Trash.
1 akki colfinger
Big fat trash
2 goblin fire feind
Trash.
1 greater forgeling
Trash.
1 viashino spearhunter
Trash.
1 valleymaker
Wait what the hell is this doing in here? Trash.
1 hellspark elemental
Actually a good card. Get 4 of these.
1 goblin grenadiers
Major trash.
2 goblin digging team
What the hell is this? Trash.
1 lunk errant
TRASH.
1 sandstone warrior
Trash.
1 goblin skycutter
Not terrible, could be replaced by a better 2-slot though.
1 skirk shaman
Trash.
1 hell bent raider
For 3 mana, you could get 6 damage with trample or 3 with wither. This card isn't horrible, but it's also not anywhere near good enough to cost 3 mana in a good deck.
2 barbed shocker
GARBAGE. This card is good in gimmicky megrim decks. Not in burn.
spellsx17
1 soulfire
You mean soul's fire? Trash.
2 fiery fall
GARBAGE.
1 mana geiser
Bad.
2 jaws of stone
Garbage.
4 stun
Trash.
1 incite hysteria
GARBAGE.
1 ember gale
Garbage.
1 kearveks tarch
Finally, a decent card. Still, Demonfire (among others) would be better.
1 titans evenge
There are WAY better X spells. This was decent in limited. Barely.
2 spitting earth
Trash.
1 shard volley
Replace with lightning bolt. It's like a dollar card; you can't tell me you can't get 4 M10 lightning bolts.
landsx22
21 mountain
1 akoum refuge
Why the hell are you running this land? Another mountain is way better than it in this deck.

what do you think of this deck...its good to me Very Happy

It's horrible. Inconsistent (the more copies of a card, the better), lousy card choices, more than 60 cards, and top-heavy. How in the world do you manage to not be mana-screwed when half of your "aggro burn" deck is ridiculously expensive creatures or creatures that work off of other resources? Why is there next to no actual direct damage in here? Where are the shocks, lightning bolts, incinerates? Why the HELL are you playing terrible, terrible, TERRIBLE 6-cost creatures?

To call this "aggro burn" is very, very misleading. It's more like "Mono-red-ramp" without any form of ramp. If you win with this, your opponents, are TERRIBLE.

/calls it like it is.

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Re: AGGRO, Burn

Post by razorborne on Tue May 18, 2010 4:31 pm

while Cadet may not have been the most tactful responder ever, he is fairly correct. your aggro/burn deck has six cards that can burn players and, as far as I can tell, absolutely no one-drops and fairly few two-drops. your curve does not allow you to play the aggro in the slightest. for the most part, you're better off trying to be control. my recommendation if you'd like to build a better mono-red aggro-burn deck:

pick at least two one-drops. perhaps Goblin Guide, Figure of Destiny (although he's expensive), Jackal Familiar, or something. get four of each of those. then get yourself four each of around three good two-drops. Kiln Fiend could be fun, Blood Knight is good, whatever you want. that should give you about 20 cards right there. from there, you can add some more expensive cards, although I wouldn't go over 4 mana, and you can add some good burn. (I recommend four each of at least three different burn spells. Lightning Bolt, Incinerate, Burst Lightning, and Shard Volley are all good options.) I'd run maybe 22 lands, with some fetches if you can afford them.

remember, you can run casual cards, that's totally cool, but you still want your curve to be good. otherwise your deck is just going to play like an unorganized pile of cards you threw together. also, if you're playing aggro, you want the game to end fast. X spells are not very good at that. maybe you can run a one-of Banefire or something in case your opponent stabilizes early and you need a way to punch through a bit more damage, but you don't want much more than that. you need to come out of the gates blazing. that's how you win.

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Re: AGGRO, Burn

Post by feral hydra on Tue May 18, 2010 9:25 pm

i need mana accel now because now i am adding Urza's Rage...
half life
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Re: AGGRO, Burn

Post by Bob_from_Accounting on Tue May 18, 2010 11:43 pm

Just the one or 4 of them? It's a good card you should run 4 of.
Also Dormant Volcano is an awesome way to 'ramp' to them.
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Re: AGGRO, Burn

Post by feral hydra on Tue May 18, 2010 11:54 pm

i only have one of them, so yeah...
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Re: AGGRO, Burn

Post by Bob_from_Accounting on Wed May 19, 2010 12:15 am

Fair enough.
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Re: AGGRO, Burn

Post by feral hydra on Wed May 19, 2010 12:25 am

any one have anymore ideas
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Re: AGGRO, Burn

Post by The Cadet on Wed May 19, 2010 4:49 am

[quote=\"feral hydra\"]i need mana accel now because now i am adding Urza\'s Rage...
half life[/quote]

...



Every piece of advice given to you by good players thus far has been along the lines of \"lower your curve\". Urza\'s Rage is terrible if you don\'t pay what, 12? 14? mana for it.

Drop EVERYTHING that costs more than 4 mana. Run to anywhere you can find a decent commons bin and pick up:
4x lightning bolt (common in M10 and a few sets before it)
4x shock (common in 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th, Onslaught, Urza\'s Saga, etc.)
4x Incinerate (common in 10th)

That\'s a start. Actually good burn cards. Then pick up 4x Blood Knight (Planar Chaos uncommon). There are probably a bunch more easy to get cards that are great for a red deck like this. Don\'t look for anything that either gives you mana (\'cept lands) or costs more than 4 mana. Avoid things that cost more than 2 or 3. X-spells are usually good things to avoid as well, if you are interested in playing aggro burn.
Anything that is a 2/(something) for 1 or a 3/(something) for 2 is great, as long as it can attack and the downside on it isn\'t too horrible.

Actually play cards that are AGGRO.


Last edited by The Cadet on Wed May 19, 2010 4:56 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: AGGRO, Burn

Post by feral hydra on Wed May 19, 2010 4:51 am

i know that...but it is a handy card if i have a good turn(reaslly good)


i am modifying the deck now
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Re: AGGRO, Burn

Post by The Cadet on Wed May 19, 2010 4:56 am

...

Define a good turn? A turn when you have more than 10 mana to blow on a single spell?

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Re: AGGRO, Burn

Post by feral hydra on Wed May 19, 2010 5:00 am

a mana hand with akoum refugee and urza's rage...
with others of course
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Re: AGGRO, Burn

Post by The Cadet on Wed May 19, 2010 5:17 am

That's a good game. As in, your opponent draws absolutely nothing he can play the whole game good. Urza's rage has exactly one good location-a control deck that expects to force its opponent to reach turn 20 or so before murdering them with ophidian or a Morphling backed up with force of will or two Urza's Rages after the opponent's hand is empty.

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Re: AGGRO, Burn

Post by feral hydra on Wed May 19, 2010 5:19 am

yeah i have made plenty of acualy good control decks but urzas rage is a good card for burn if you have say seething song(if you want good cards with a mana curve high enough)...uraza's rage is more a run away card...


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Re: AGGRO, Burn

Post by The Cadet on Wed May 19, 2010 8:55 am

Is this a "good" deck?

In burn decks, you DON'T PLAY CARDS THAT COST 12 MANA. It's that simple. In a good burn deck, if your opponent is still alive and it's turn 6, you are either waiting on that topdecked ball lightning or you have been losing the game since turn 3.

That said, this deck is not a burn deck. Or a good deck. Urza's rage is a fucking TERRIBLE card for burn.

Basically, what you're hoping is that you get to 12 mana. A good ramp deck might get to 12 mana because it is built to a) get mana really fast and b) survive well against aggro with cards like Pyroclasm and Wrath of God. A control deck in a very slow format might get to 12 mana (for example, Bow Wow Wow was an old "top tier" deck that played an absurdly long control game. Urza's rage was one of the key win cards. But this was Extended right when Onslaught came out, and the deck wanted to win with Battle of Wits. Other than that, Urza's Rage has never seen much play AFAIK). Aggro, Burn, Weenie, Beats... no agressive deck will play anything that is supposed to cost more than 10 mana. Evil or Very Mad


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Re: AGGRO, Burn

Post by feral hydra on Wed May 19, 2010 8:59 am

i know i said it was a burn, aggro mix.
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Re: AGGRO, Burn

Post by The Cadet on Wed May 19, 2010 9:00 am

Aggro decks don't either.

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Re: AGGRO, Burn

Post by feral hydra on Wed May 19, 2010 9:04 am

it cant possibly be that bad, i mean it may not be what you call a burn deck but it hasent shown me bad reveiws that much
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Re: AGGRO, Burn

Post by The Cadet on Wed May 19, 2010 9:07 am

feral hydra wrote:it cant possibly be that bad, i mean it may not be what you call a burn deck but it hasent shown me bad reveiws that much
Who is reviewing you? Your friends? Are they good at magic? Are they as good as you?

It's not just that I don't call it burn or aggro. It's just... A bad deck. Aggro decks don't run 6-cost creatures unless they completely and totally break the game in half (trying to think of a good example but I can't). Do me a favor and collect the mana curve for me-how many spells at each mana cost you have.

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Re: AGGRO, Burn

Post by feral hydra on Wed May 19, 2010 9:11 am

my opponents are pretty bad at the game...
i would do the mana thing if i new what it meant
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Re: AGGRO, Burn

Post by The Cadet on Wed May 19, 2010 9:23 am

feral hydra wrote:my opponents are pretty bad at the game...
i would do the mana thing if i new what it meant

Basically, take each card in your deck and get the converted mana cost. (how much mana you pay for it total) Then, put the ones with the same converted mana cost in a pile, and count how big each of these piles are.

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Re: AGGRO, Burn

Post by feral hydra on Wed May 19, 2010 9:31 am

ok

155-164

1-3
2-8
3-12
4-7
5-4
6-9(YIKES!!!!!!!)
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Re: AGGRO, Burn

Post by The Cadet on Wed May 19, 2010 9:49 am

See what I mean? Cut EVERYTHING in 6, anything that isn't completely critical in 4 and 5, and add more 3, 2, and 1 drops.

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Re: AGGRO, Burn

Post by feral hydra on Wed May 19, 2010 9:52 am

i know i didnt even realize how many i had...those card have to go...


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Re: AGGRO, Burn

Post by razorborne on Wed May 19, 2010 3:56 pm

Cadet, stop being a dick, it's not attractive.

hydra: here's a decent curve to follow. note that you should have as many of each card as you can. many good cards for aggro/burn decks are fairly cheap, so it shouldn't be too hard to get them. anyway:

1cc-8
2cc-12
3cc-4
4cc-2 (make sure these are damn good. or you could just run two more 3-mana cards.)

after that, throw in about 12 burn spells that do not cost more than 2, and toss in 22 lands, all of which should come into play untapped, and you should be good to go. note that every creature should be able to deal at least as much damage per turn as its converted mana cost, at the bare minimum. especially on the 1-drops, you'll want more than that. with this sort of deck, you'll most likely want to aim your burn at their creatures for the first few turns to get through for more damage faster with your creatures, and then turn it on them as the game goes longer to finish them off. as a sample, using all extended-legal commons, here's a possible decklist.

Creatures:
1cc:
4*Goblin Cohort
4*Goblin Arsonist

2cc:
4*Plated Geopede
4*Mudbrawler Cohort
4*Drooling Ogre (if artifacts aren't a big deal in your playgroup. if they are, you might consider Hearth Kami.)

3cc:
4*Ruinous Minotaur (if you have the balls. it's a risky card, but one hit is huge. if you'd rather something safer, maybe Hissing Iguanar?)

4cc:
2*Flamecore Elemental (at this point we get to the area where uncommons are generally going to be significantly better, but I said commons so this is prolaby your best shot.)

burn:
4*Lightning Bolt
4*Searing Blaze
4*Incinerate

Land:
22*Mountain

that'll most likely cost you less than ten bucks to put together, total. try it. see what happens to your win percentage. and feel free to switch out some of the cards for other stuff, but make sure you're not adding more expensive stuff, and make sure that what you're adding is aggressive. that's the key. your stuff should be swinging hard and fast.



PS: also, remember that decks have to be 60 cards. this seems to be a recurring issue with you.
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Re: AGGRO, Burn

Post by feral hydra on Wed May 19, 2010 10:50 pm

ok thanks for te positive help...will do, i was going ot change up the deck today but i have to look atthe cards i do have
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Re: AGGRO, Burn

Post by razorborne on Wed May 19, 2010 11:38 pm

the cards I suggested aren't really that important. the mana costs are. if you're playing against decks of a similar calibre to the one you posted, odds are high just having a good curve is going to do wonders for you. try to find your most aggressive creatures in each slot, and you should do fine. also, I really recommend making sure the four-drops you run if you run any are very, very good. if they aren't, just run more three-drops.

also if you have to, burn that costs 3 is okay. I recommend cheaper stuff, but if you don't have enough and want to toss in that Urza's Rage or something, it's nowhere near as bad as Cadet says it is.

:duel:
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Re: AGGRO, Burn

Post by feral hydra on Thu May 20, 2010 12:26 am

yeah i know urza's rage is a good card to knock you opponents life down half way is great...

anyway thanks for the help...

i dont really have much cheap burn spells though but i can get some...
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Re: AGGRO, Burn

Post by razorborne on Thu May 20, 2010 12:55 am

feral hydra wrote:yeah i know urza's rage is a good card to knock you opponents life down half way is great...

anyway thanks for the help...

i dont really have much cheap burn spells though but i can get some...
honestly? play the rage for 3. an uncounterable 3-mana incinerate is fine. if you happen to have the mana to kick it, go ahead, but do not be afraid to play it for 3.

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Re: AGGRO, Burn

Post by feral hydra on Thu May 20, 2010 1:03 am

yeah, i know it can make a good finishing attack if i manage to kick it
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Re: AGGRO, Burn

Post by Bob_from_Accounting on Thu May 20, 2010 7:44 pm

So can Shrapnel Blast and you can cast that spell for two. So can Fireblast and you can cast that spell for free.
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